How long do you have to be away from a place to no longer be from there? Although The Forgotten hail from San Jose, they’ve spent so much time on the road recently that it can now be considered their residence. Enough of that has been in Europe that they can surely qualify as ex-patriots. In the squalid basement of a former burlesque hall turned porno theatre turned concert venue, photographer Lee Sipes and I spoke with Gordy and Craig between bottles of MGD and funny vodka drinks. They set me straight on the club closures in the Bay area, the business, and The Business. In one week, they will play a triumphant homecoming show with punk legends The Casualties, Cockney Rejects, Youth Brigade, Anti-Nowhere League, and many others.

EW: So you guys just got off tour from Germany.

Gordy: Yes, two months. It was a blast!

EW: And I know you had Sixer out there with you, but did you meet up with Oxymoron out there?

Craig: At the one show in London.

EW: So AOE, they book all your shows for you so you don’t have to worry about that end of it?

Gordy: Age Of Enlightenment is just our publicist actually. Out there we work with a company called MAB. They are a great company to work with out there. They take care of us just beautifully. No complaints.

EW: So you’re at the point now that you don’t have to book your own shows?

Gordy: Oh, yeah we do. Just not out there, because we don’t speak the language.

EW: So you just basically hire them as translators?

Gordy: We don’t hire anybody, we can’t afford that shit. But we were lucky enough that this company got in touch with TKO Records and talked with them about bringing us out. What, about a year ago, Craig?

Craig: Yeah.

Gordy: And once that happened, we really fell in love with Europe. And luckily enough, they decided they really didn’t feel too bad about us. And so we’ve been out there four months total within the last year. And it was really cool that they take care of booking the shows and everything like that. They take care of us really nicely. We’ve got nothing but good things to say about them.

Craig: They book the shows, they rent the van, get you a driver, rent a backline. It’s nice, they do everything.

Gordy: Nothing like the States.

EW: So it’s a long way from playing around in San Jose, playing The Filmore, The Stone and Omni

Gordy: Well The Stone’s been closed for like, what, 7 years now?

Craig: About that.

Gordy: The Stone’s been closed, Omni’s been closed.

EW: Really?

Gordy: We never stepped foot in The Filmore, as far as on the stage have we? We’ve played in the smaller clubs like the Cactus Club in San Jose, Covered Wagon in SF, Purple Onion when that was going on.

EW: This is all new to me.

Craig: Slim’s twice.

Gordy: Yeah, Slim’s is good. We like that place.

EW: Slim’s I know.

Gordy: It’s definitely a long way from that. Because even a States tour is: drive for 8 hours, show up, get two drink tickets, and if you ask if there’s a pizza joint around, they get like, "You don’t expect us to pay for that, do ya?" "No, we got it." So it’s a very different tour out in Europe.

EW: Now this isn’t your first tour here in Denver, you played down at Raven. What’s strange about Denver is you’ll get some really big name bands that you would think would play at least the Bluebird or Ogden, and they end up at The Lion’s Lair. Which holds about 50.

Gordy: Really?

EW: Iron Cross played there, I saw DOA there.

Gordy: Oh, nice!

EW: Very strange. And I understand I had a really good time at that show. That was my birthday, and I don’t have a real clear recollection of what went on.

Gordy: Then it was a good birthday.

EW: Yeah, it was. Now you put out Keep The Corpses Quiet, and Lars (Frederiksen) produced it?

Craig: Uh, he did not produce it. The press information was wrong on that. He was going to and then had to back out when he had some other obligations.

EW: But you ended up playing guitar with The Bastards.

Craig: Yeah.

EW: How was that for you?

Craig: Worked out OK. It’s pretty fun.

EW: Is that a different feel than this band? Is this a tighter knit group?

Craig: It’s different because me and Gordy started this band and everything. I kind of joined that after it was all said and done. The record was already done.

EW: So this is your home. This is your family?

Craig: Yeah, exactly.

EW: And you guys didn’t have any reservations about him playing out?

Gordy: Absolutely not. No, I mean first off, talk about band security there, Lars has got Rancid. I don’t have to worry that he’s going to drop out of all of that and take Craig away from us and run away. He’s got Rancid and they’re a great band. They’re not going anywhere. They’re going to be together. I mean if you’ve seen any of his shows he’ll let you know they’re going to be together until they’re 80 as he says. So we know if Craig’s doing that, it’s a great opportunity for him. Why would we ever step on him? He’s not just a band mate, he’s a friend. Why would we ever step on him for doing something?

EW: Before The Forgotten, what band were you in? I haven’t gone back that far in your history.

Gordy: It’s extremely incestuous, both Dave (Dkash) and I and Craig have all been in, or are in bands with Lars. Lars and I were in our first punk band together The Nowhere Men. After that I went and joined a band called Slip. (Shows Slip tattoo inside lip) It’s still sticking with me unfortunately. Dave was in a band what was it? Before Crack you were in.

Dkash: Cajones.

Gordy: With Lars.

Dkash: I was in a band called Crack, and then I was in 4 Banger.

EW: 4 Banger.

Gordy: Great name, isn’t it? And Craig was in…

Craig: Vintage 46.

Gordy: They were making a really big splash out in Santa Cruz, which is actually how we hooked up. We were two bands that played together and hung out together. And when my band fell apart I called Craig and was complaining, "My band fell apart." And he’s says, "My band fell apart too." And we said, "Hmmmm…why don’t we do something here?" And it worked out beautifully. I’m really stoked that both our bands fell apart. (Laughter)

Craig: I am too!

EW: You heard it here first. TKO, did they approach you with wanting to pick you up?

Craig: It was all great. I met Mark, he was working in a thrift store underneath Epicenter Records in SF. I just knew him from going into the record store all the time. I said, "I’m in a band, you should come check us out." And he said, " Well I’m starting a label, you should give me a tape." It was as simple as that and here we are.

EW: Perfect timing.

Craig: It’s all timing.

Gordy: Welcome to the music scene.

Craig: Didn’t involve talent at all.

Gordy: It never does. I mean there’s bands out there that should be signed that never get signed. And bands that play two shows and get picked up immediately. I think everything about this has less to do with talent or tenacity and has everything to do with being in the right place at the right time. Which is kind of unfortunate for people who want to make this their career. But that’s the name of the game.

Craig: Tenacity and songwriting definitely help, but it’s just like an added bonus.

EW: How’s that going for you, are you able to put away some T-bills?

Gordy: Fuck no.

Craig: No.

EW: Just hand to mouth still.

Gordy: Less than that, as a matter of fact when we stop over at McDonalds and everyone gets $5 that’s really blowing our budget there. Absolutely blowing our budget. Between the merch bill, we don’t own our van. We’re still paying for it; it could get repoed at any time. We’re just trying to get out and do what we want to do. Everybody in this band either dropped out of school, or quit jobs to be here. No ones got anything to hold on when we get home. So right now the plan is jus to stay on the fucking road. Whether we earn any money or not, we’re definitely not going to earn money by not playing shows. And that’s what we want to do anyway. So by quitting everything, it’s kind of helped us as far as the push. Even though we’re not making any money, we make enough to get to the next town.

EW: It’s going to give you the drive and the edge to put on a show.

Gordy: Well it will or it’s going to piss you off and make you quit, one or the other. Either way you’re moving forward, right? With life.

EW: In about four days you’re going to be playing on a stage with GBH, The Exploited, and Sham 69.

Gordy: Not Sham anymore.

EW: Sham’s not going to be there?

Craig: They’re playing. That was just a rumor.

Dkash: Who dropped off?

Gordy: That was jus a rumor, OK. Never mind. Yes. We will be onstage with all those people then, and I can’t wait. For me that’s the biggest perk of doing this. Well your biggest perk is the kid in front that you can see their mouth moving, they actually know the words. They like the music that much, that they’re actually singing along. That right there makes everything fucking worth it. And then the second perk is being able to not only play shows, but hang out with The Business, Agnostic Front, Anti-Nowhere League. These bands that you grew up to, and idolized. And all of the sudden it’s like, well fuck...its like you’re almost on the same playing field. Because you’re there with them. And you’re hanging out with them having a beer and it’s amazing. Sometimes it’s hard to talk to these people because you get tongue tied every time the realization comes that, "Oh my God, that’s Micky Fitz I’m talking to." It’s kind of weird.

EW: And the kids are doing the same with you. I grew up with that music, and now there’s a whole fresh crew coming through and it’s mostly TKO bands and here I am talking to The Forgotten. I mean, I got Keep The Corpses Quiet and it was unbelievable. I’m calling it new old-school because it’s what we’ve been listening to all along, but it’s new and fresh and it’s people who are excited about it.

Gordy: Excellent. I hope we’re able to live up to your expectations being up here a mile high. We are not used to this climate at all. We’ve done this before and it pretty much goes three songs and "Can I get a chair up here?"

EW: Plenty of liquids.

Gordy: Is that the key?

EW: Drink a lot. Hydrate yourself.

Gordy: Well I’ll keep working this vodka and Red Bull then.

Craig: Is that why you got the Red Bull?

Gordy: Vodka and Red Bull will fuck you up if you get too much in there. It’s like the big elevator ride. When we were at Holidays In The Sun in England, they are always trying to one-up the yanks. They’ve got this new one out there, vodka, tequila and Red Bull.

EW: Oh, good God.

Gordy: I looked at that on the menu and thought well if I really wanted to get into a fight today...I might be thinking about it. But as it is, fuck that!

EW: Few of those, I might take a swing at myself.

Gordy: That’s the whole thing. Take yourself outside and kick the crap out of you. You just can’t get angry enough at anyone else really.

EW: And then you have to tell the wife, "Yeah, but I won...and I lost."

Gordy: It’s OK, I made up and fucked myself later.

EW: So how was the Holidays In The Sun?

Gordy: Amazing! For us it was great because we pull up in the morning, and we hear they’ve got programs. So we go up and grab the program, and Craig is on the cover.

EW: Nice.

Craig: That was all right.

Gordy: And we’re like, "What the fuck!" Here we are first time we play Holidays and Craig’s on the cover. This is ridiculous. We open it up, and only about ten bands that are playing get interviewed for it, and they were nice enough to include an old interview of ours. So we said, "Fuck, could it get any better than this?" Then we go load in our gear on the stage we’re playing, and our stage managers are Peter and Dell from Peter And The Test Tube Babies. Like I was saying before, not only are we huge fucking fans, but we went out with them on our first full US tour and it was their first US tour. We were all crammed in one van together. So that’s friendship. That’s history. You get through with that you’re going to be pretty tight with someone. After 6 weeks stuck shoulder to shoulder in a tiny van with no AC. So we’re on a cloud from that and we walk outside, and all at arms distance there’s Charlie Harper, there’s Colin from Cock Sparrer...

Craig: There’s Waddy.

Gordy: Oh my Gad! I think I started fucking orgasming at ten o’clock in the morning. I was getting dehydrated about one. Had a ziploc bag around my cock just trying to catch all the fucking spillage. It was the most amazing thing. And they really know how to do it up right out there. Not one fight. 3000 punks come into the city, from what I hear, I don’t think I ever stood anyplace where I saw all 3000. But nobody out there is halfway toeing the line. Either they are a complete skinhead, or they are a complete punk but no one halfway. It was like "fuck" man. This is the way when you were a kid you’d get those postcards and shit down on Haight St and you’d be like, "Man, I wish life was like that." Well that’s the way it was. And not one fight, if anyone had a problem with someone they’d just walk away from them. I hope Holidays in SF can be like that, but something tells me if you put 3000 Americans in SF we could get the show closed down. As Americans we’re not going to say we’re here to respect the music, we’re all here for the same goal.

EW: Yeah, I don’t think you can hope for the same thing, really.

Gordy: No, I don’t either and it’s sad. Holidays out there was absolutely great. Watching The Business fire the security, down at the pit mid-show. "You! You’re roughing up the kids. Get the fuck out, otherwise we’re going to start a riot. We’ve got our own security that will take over." That was absolutely amazing. And that pretty much set the pace. The punk rockers ran it.

Lee: The Business played here two weeks ago.

Gordy: We saw on the wall there: "Vinnie Stigma is gay, I should know, I fucked him – Micky Fitz." (Laughter)

Lee: I saw that show. That was the best show I’ve seen in my entire life. They were having fun. Micky had all the monitors moved so he could be right up there with the kids.

Gordy: He’s an absolutely amazing guy. I respect him so much. And as you guys know, the new album.

(EW & Lee look at their shoes)

Gordy: Oh, God it’s the best thing they’ve put out! They go back to the old days. You hear Strength Through Oi or something like that where there’s little spots of poetry through there. There’s poetry on there, they vary up the style a little bit. They go straight back to Drinking And Driving style, they bring it up to a more current metal almost fast songs. But The Business doing them they sound fucking gorgeous.

EW: TKO seems to have a huge impact on what’s good punk rock right now. The stuff that isn’t pop. And that isn’t getting signed to Epitaph.

Lee: Hey!

EW: I’ve offended someone.

Lee: Merle Haggard signed to Epitaph.

EW: Well Merle is fucking punk.

Craig: It’s a great record.

Gordy: We’ve been listening to that in the van.

EW: Now I just got the new Generators.

Gordy: Great huh?

EW: Oh man! I’m really impressed. And you seem to know TKO on a friendship basis as well.

Craig: I lived with Mark for two years when he was starting the label. I’ve been really good friends with him since he started putting out seven inches and doing mail order.

EW: It sounds like the same thing as Holidays In The Sun. It’s punks doing it and doing it right. It’s not industry people.

Craig: It’s all family and friends. It’s a tight-knit group. The way it should be.

EW: And they’ve got a good ear. And that’s why I ask if you went to them or if they came to you. I don’t know how they’re finding all these people.

Gordy: Quite honestly, neither do I. Some of them I think, "Now how the fuck did you know about that?" This band that didn’t tour, haven’t done anything yet, but they’re fucking great. Off on the other side of the country and they will find these people and pick them up. And they’re also the type of people who will take a chance on you. You’re not going to find that anywhere in the industry. Someone who says, "You haven’t sold anything, I don’t know how big your following is because I can’t make it out to your shows. But I like the way you sound, so I’m going to pick you up." WOW, that’s all I can say. Mark, I’ve got to give him a lot of respect.

EW: What do you want the kids to know?

Craig: We’ve got a new EP coming out on Cyclone--Ask No Questions We’ve got six songs coming out on Outsider records on a comp called American Fight Club II. Dead Empty is on that as well. Tanqeray from Kansas City, and Bonecrusher from LA. Each band gets 5 or 6 songs.

Gordy: Out this fall. How’s the scene out here?

Lee: I’ve been gone for 6 years, I just moved back three weeks ago.

EW: The scene here, when you show up and see the crowd out there that’s about half the scene. The rest of the time you see a few individuals walking around. There’s no real tight community. It’s all internet now. The scene is now electronic. And people are hanging with their buddies in Florida and Georgia. Locally it’s become so accepted to walk around with a mohawk and get a job this way that people don’t stick together. People are infiltrating the rest of the community.

Gordy: I know exactly what you’re talking about and actually I feel a little sad about that, quite frankly. There’s definitely a lot of people that are real. As long as you’re out there loving the music that’s all that matters. But I think that punk rock was built on a certain sort of fight, and a certain sort of ideal. Some of that being that just because we look this way doesn’t mean we’re stupid and should be fucking pushed aside by society. But now that people can get jobs with Mohawks and nose rings a lot of that fight is lost. Not lost, lost from them. Because we’ve won in a certain sense. We’ve won what we’ve been looking for, so what’s there to fight for anymore, right? Let’s just go out and act like assholes. And it shouldn’t be that way. There should still be a certain amount of respect for your fellow punk. Straight up respect for what other people are doing. And diversifying the scene too. That’s why I’m really happy with a lot of the new punk bands coming out with different sounds that aren’t cliché. That’s really important for the scene. Back in the old days when you had the Pistols, The Damned, and Siouxsie playing together, no one went "That’s not punk." or whatever. Today that wouldn’t fly if they weren’t established bands. A female fronted band that toes the line between goth and punk and then a straight punk band, people would be confused. They wouldn’t know what to do. So these things are important and I hope that that rejuvenates the scene. In a certain sense brings back some of the fight. Some of the push.

EW: The Nazi element has sort of retreated into the woodwork, which is the plus side of that coin. They used to show up for everything. Years ago, there was trouble at Sisters Of Mercy, and it was like, "Why exactly are you here again?" I don’t think there’s ever been a lot of unity in the scene here.

Gordy: Really? The unity happened a lot back when punk was dangerous. Any show you’d go to you might end up in the pit next to a skinhead with an iron cross tattooed on his chest, and it wasn’t for Independent Skates. It was straight up because they had certain beliefs. And that was something you had t o deal with every day. And there was that pompous skinhead attitude that they were better than the punk rockers and punks are scumbags. Back when the scene was dangerous we’d break bottles in the pit. You’d have to watch your back constantly, and that brought a huge sense of unity to it. People stuck together because you fucking had to. And now that’s not really there. Punk rock is not dangerous anymore. It’s still dangerous, but not like it used to be. Back when they had circle pits. Now they have mish-mash metalhead, "I’m going to sock somebody" sort of thing.

EW: It used to be slamming, now it’s moshing.

Gordy: I like the term skanking, because that’s what we did. That certain dance all about elbows and knees. Climbing over your brother, the skins would be in the center keeping it going. You fall down and someone’s right there to pick you up, because they’re not there to stomp you. Just to have some fun. If you catch and elbow or a fist, you catch it. That’s the chance you take. Now it’s different. You can expect a fist or an elbow because that’s what they’re trying to deliver.

Craig: That’s one thing this tour has showed us is how there’s no unity. So many shows kids will come with one other friend and get beat up by these people. There’s no more crews of friends who show up.

Gordy: Back then, if you see a punk walking down the street. I can’t tell you how many friends I have now that I met because they were a punk walking down the street and you see another punk and say, "What’s up? How you doing?" Even the skinheads, because the punks didn’t carry such a chip on their shoulder about things. You see someone who’s part of the scene--rockabilly, gothic, it didn’t matter. You talk, and if someone’s an asshole their an asshole. You don’t judge them right away. Now it’s all about "Look what he’s wearing, I bet he paid $80 for those pants. Where’d he get that shirt? Who the fuck does he think he is?" Whoa, we’re all at the same show, so we obviously have something in common. We all like this music and want to be here and have some fun. Where’s the fucking attitude coming from? If it’s a punk, you should be friends or at least make the effort. Kind of disheartening.

— Ewan Wadharmi

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